Enterprise is a great show, especially compared to the likes of Discovery and most of Picard.

It’s pretty funny people are giving you a hard time for this comment but yeah the actors are actually only 11 years apart from each other…and looks it.

So you you don’t watch it, and those of us who want to will, and everybody wins.

It’s a bummer that writers forced the studios into some bad investments. As Zack Stentz pointed out on Twitter, these are the same people who greenlit $300 million for INDY 5; they should be given the benefit of the doubt and be allowed to fix this. Nobody should be able to earn a living wage from writing for TV and films ever again in order to maintain shareholder value.

Worse than that. According to Deadline, the AMPTP’s plan is to string this along until well into
October in an effort to “break the WGA.” The story quotes a source who said they also plan to get a contract into place with SAG/AFTRA before negotiating with the writers in an effort to pit the unions against one another. Now, this could be nothing but bluster from the producers, but it could be a long time before this gets resolved.

Huh? What do you mean? The new Star Wars canon is almost watertight in terms of canon continuity. 100x more so than these new Trek shows.

I know all of this. My point is it doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee either. This is the same company that advertised season 2 of Prodigy was coming this year a few months ago. Instead they cancelled it and trying to sell it off.

Until these shows are actually made, anything can happen, especially with Paramount’s serious money issues combined with the writer’s strike.

Yep. Time for writing to end as a profession. It had a good run.

prodigy was not renewed for a 3rd season when season 2 was announced and lower decks and snw got renewed for season 5 and and season 3
and season 2 of prodigy is finished but will have to be aired somewere else

Paramount Global
Market cap:$10.5 billion
Stock average 1/3 – 5/1:Up 39%
Stock average 5/2 – 6/30:down 32%
Most recent quarter:
Free cash flow: negative $307 million
Revenue: $7.3 billion
2022 CEO compensation (Bob Bakish):$32 million

Warner is looking only slightly better:

Warner Bros. Discovery
Market cap:$30.5 billion
Stock average 1/3 – 5/1:up 40%
Stock average 5/2 – 6/30:down 6%
Most recent quarter:
Free cash flow: negative $930 million
Revenue: $10.7 billion
2022 CEO compensation (David Zaslav):$39.3 million

Apple and Amazon, on the other hand, have trillion dollar market caps so they can weather the streaming storm.

But some aren’t though, and the actress looks like Kim Kardashian.

To be fair, many view different elements of Kurtzmantrek as a ‘ crapfest’ and ‘ failed show’, interesting how Enterprise, which many people enjoy, can be spoken of like that but kurtzman is above such criticism?

if Enterprise can be criticized other shows should be open to criticize as well.

You would not be enjoying this janky TV series without all the people before you who *do* have religious fervor for it; too, the people who make this show have gone out of their way — when nobody said they had to — to say that it’s connected to the previous show(s).

“New Coke” has been trying to reach you on your phone.

No you’re wrong, and the way Gene Roddenberry set this up there is no such distinction. I hope you can come to accept that

When we actually meet an alien race with the medical technology to remove DNA from the body of a humanoid without ill effects, when that humanoid happens to be a Vulcan/Human half-breed, and when we actually understand the process and how it works, then you get to bitch about the scientific accuracy.

You will, of course, be expected to show your work.

P.S. Transporters are made-up nonsense too. Hasn’t bothered me a single minute since I started watching Star Trek (and it’s been a lot of minutes, believe me).

P.P.S. Canon is meaningless. Dammit, Jim, it’s a TV series, not a religion.

Nothing from TOS is being erased. SNW is in a different timeline the way the Kelvin movies were.That’s all.

It’s going to be a fun romp River Temarc! Get in the spirit!! :)

That’s certainly true. To be honest it really falls on TOS than SNW, I’m only pointing out SNW isn’t helping either lol. But as said it’s not a huge deal. It’s just hilarious all these people are showing up on the Enterprise so early in the timeline and we’re suppose to believe a lot of them were barely known later on.

I’ll give it until season 4 when we get an episode of the Gorn invading the ship. ;D

Agreed. And I was one of those people who bailed because I was not into the prequel idea at all and it just didn’t gel. But once I gave it a real chance, I fell in love with it. Still far from perfect, but so much better than most of the stuff we got later IMO.

Some of us re looking forward to it.

Khan existed in the 1990’s in this fictional universe, all of this is fiction so Khan ruling in 1990’s isn’t any different than any other plot point. For the Star Trek Universe and characters Khan existed in the 1990’s, just like to use an example TV shows have had fictional Presidents that are different from the actual Presidents at the time.

Hope you are able to see the distinction between the history for the characters in the fictional universe and history for the viewer.

Well said, Ortegas constant quips and, frankly, insubordination is very annoying.

And this new T’Pring looks like Kim Kardashian, rather silly that is the visual they are going for.

When you take into account that the downgrade in technology is due to Control, then the advanced technology stops being a problem.

They just need to vocalize that on screen, make it clear that technology went backwards out of concern for it going rampant again like Control did.

ENT was a great series. People bailed on it not because of its quality but because it wasn’t what they wanted it to be, which isn’t the same as it being bad.

Mine too! Top to bottom superb stuff. I’m hoping this episode will match it.

To be fair Kirk would probably have read a file on Sarek in the Original series before he came on the ship and it would of mentioned he is his second officers father.

And let’s call this “it’s an alternate timeline” / “it’s not canon” what it really is:

Gatekeeping.

I thought we were done with that toxic nonsense after Discovery’s first season, but apparently not. Ugh.

Exactly!

You must be watching a different Star Wars universe than I’m watching then…lol

LMFAO

Seriously, it would help if you knew the source material better. It’s not bad writing on Spock. It’s you not understanding the source material from The Cage.

No I don’t think DIS is a failed show either, but probably not as successful as they hoped either. It’s just mere speculation on my part but they probably did want it to go seven seasons. And as I pointed out, most of the shows on P+ has mostly been duds. Outside of The Good Fight so far, Star Trek is the only franchise that has shows making it 3 seasons or longer.

That’s also why I kind of compared it to UPN, because 80% of those shows only got 1-2 seasons too. You can count on both hands all the shows that got 3 seasons or more and that includes both of the Trek shows. And this was a network around for 11 years. If you include All Access, that’s been around 6 years now but only a handful of somewhat successful shows.

So in that regard, Discovery is a HUGE success lol. Maybe it would’ve gotten cancelled much sooner someplace else but all the Trek shows have been doing well enough at least minus Prodigy unfortunately.

But yeah I am worried. I think LDS and SNW will get the next seasons they were renewed with (and LDS could actually be making fifth season now since I read animated shows are not part of the same guild and why they are still working on Prodigy), but after that? And you’re right we may not get SNW next year at all if the strike goes into the Fall. Maybe out of desperation they will put half the season up and then take a break to deliver the other half later since they did that for both DIS and PRO so they have something for next year. But with so little Star Trek around, 2024 already felt pretty bare, but even more so now.

We could just be getting the final season of Discovery and probably LDS 5th season for all of 2024. Wow, that’s depressing.

I know but the spore drive is just waaaaay too advanced in this time period. Think about it, this thing can not only jump to any place in the galaxy in seconds, it can also time travel and jump to parallel universes like the MU. That’s what is insane about this tech, its SO advanced everyone should be trying to duplicate this thing in every way possible. It just doesn’t make sense in this period.

But then they introduced the Section 31 time travel suit which can ALSO jump to other places in the galaxy but through wormholes. And what’s funny about that is they made the suit can only be operated with specific DNA, in this case Burnham’s family.

It’s nice SNW is not going this direction and using absurdly advanced tach that probably wouldn’t show up for at least several more centuries. I can’t think of any new advanced that’s been introduced on that show so far.

This is why Discovery never belonged in the 23nd century.

Dude,go back and watch The Cage and you will get a clue how emotional and uneven Spock was during this period.

Come on people, know your Star Trek! Seriously it gets old reading uninformed comments like this.

ENT – a total cluster-F that the fans bailed on.

Heh.

That didn’t stop the other Romulans like Sera, though. There had to be a reason, and hopefully someday we’ll get a resolution on screen. Maybe a movie like the one they’re doing with Section 31.

The spore drive was explained on screen. It could only be operated by someone with Tardigrade DNA, which is forbidden under Federation law. That’s how they explained the existence of only one.

Yes despite my personal feelings about it I still do not feel that DIS is a failed show but I think there is little argument that unfortunately Prodigy is. It’s a BIG deal when you not only cancel a show but you don’t air what you have already made AND you yank from the service what has already streamed. I mean there really is only one definition for that sadly.

I don’t think this is the end of nuTrek as we know it, but I do think we are in for a rough ride moving forward. I mean the writer’s strike is not ending anytime soon. As a result of that SNW, as successful as it is will not air a new season in 2024 for sure, maybe not even 2025. The future of P+ as a whole is still very much uncertain. And lastly they have been pretty blunt that they are moving more to a streaming movie model more than a show of the season model like they originally planned.

Agreed. Even way back then I had difficulty believing when they said, reset, everything good now. I’m actually happy it didn’t turn out that way.

Yeah, welcome to prequels lol. And to be fair, we never heard of TCW or the Xindi attack on Earth until Enterprise showed up either. So this is not a new issue and the reason why so many people originally had trouble getting into that show.

I’ve always made it clear if I was running Star Trek, NONE of these shows would ever exist. Not ENT, DIS or SNW. Just keep TOS as your starting base to avoid all these issues and keep going forward from there, preferably after Voyager. But the damage is done now.

Thats what I assume as well, that ENT, and SNW are in a different timeline (and also applies to DIS I guess too) which people have been assuming for years anyway. But SNW just made it clear that was the case.

And while Daniels said that, obviously the effects of it was still there or the Federation wouldn’t have gotten rid of time travel technology in the 31st century and GOF/Carl wouldn’t have ran to other planets. So it ‘ended’ but the effects of it certainly lingered. And I don’t believe you can just reset something completely that ridiculously vast and long lasting, but Star Trek loves its reset buttons.

If they could remove his brain, removing his DNA is a snap!

it’s probably replicator ribeye. Yum!

Thanks :). Of course in canon now tomorrow x 3 told us that the temoral cold war is still a thing and it pushed back Khan to the 21st century. And I guess that means SNW and even ENT post season 2 lives in a slightly altered timeline than the TOS and TNG/DS9/VOY shows and movies. The only real issue with this is that it goes against what Daniels said in Stormfront part II where he said when Vox was killed in WWII the timeline was fixing itself and the TCW never happened. But if SNW is retconning that I will not lose any sleep over it!

They are ignoring more than just the Klingons from DIS though, but yeah that’s the most obvious.

Yeah five years is the average run time of what most streaming shows get, which is why I was certain if any show gets the boot first it probably would be Discovery. But five years is good, especially when most shows on that site really only make it 1-2 seasons lol. The ONLY shows outside of Star Trek that lasted more than 2 seasons on P+ so far is The Good Fight. It’s crazy but it’s true.And that went 6 seasons. That’s actually the most successful show on the site crazy enough. I think it was you who said Paramount+ is basically the streaming version of UPN and you’re probably right.

And since DIS and PRO have been prematurely cancelled, people worry about its long term future (and we should) but end of the day, Star Trek will probably still have the most content on that site no matter what, even minus Prodigy.

Sadly though I do think Prodigy is definitely a failed series since it not only got cancelled after one season, a Star Trek first, it’s getting sold off. Also of note, that and TAS are the only shows that got less seasons than TOS did, so that’s a pretty good record overall for all the other shows including DIS. As much crap people give it, there could be worse situations for sure. And there still might be with SNW if that doesn’t last beyond 3 seasons. I am starting to worry about it and LDS future.

I admit to personally having a little trouble with DSC s1 Klingon war and s2 Control war not having being mentioned before Discovery, since each event nearly annihilated the Federation and Starfleet.

Yeah, this is sad news. I’m sure TM and multiple places will make an article about it when word gets out more.

It seems they are largly ignoring what DIS established such as the look of the klingons. But it is hard to call a streaming show that ran for 5 whole years a failure. Massive hits like Ted Lasso don’t even run that long.

HAHAHAHA

Yes! If it’s officially released onscreen by the owners of the property, be it Paramount, CBS, Desilu, it’s canon. The fact that there are inconsistencies within canon doesn’t make it less canon; it simply makes it sloppy or cavalier canon.

There’s an easy workaround; Spock is in coma or dying and Sarek turns up to give him a Vulcan genesplice in secret, compelling M’Benga and co to remain silent on this gift. He could even rationalize it away as his ambassadorial duty to help forge a link between earth/fed/fleet/vulcan, tho McCoy wouldn’t be around to call him on it with, ‘in a pig’s eye.’

We have to remember that while Star Trek gets things right sometimes, there is the “fiction” aspect to this being science fiction.

Have you ever seen them in the same room together? Every time Number One is about to enter the room, Chapel leaves to make a phone call.

Also true!

And I hated the Tyler/Voq thing. Not because it made no sense in science, I accepted that from Star Trek since I was a teenager, it just made no sense within the story. But it is what it is.

The ONLY way I can see to make this erratic portrayal of Spock work timewise is to leverage off a throwaway line from TMP when Kirk says that Kohlinahr is a discipline that Spock first broke from ‘to join us.’ That would mean at some point earlier in his life, he was into Kohlinar, then dropped out and went back to Starfleet (presumably around the time of WHERE NO MAN, I guess … might even tie into the teaser exchange between them in that 2nd pilot.) That would provide sketchy justification for KurtzSpock having all these nervous breakdowns and affairs and weirdnesses (including, to show I’m not picking on modern trek exclusively, Ms. Kalomi)

God, I hope that’s not what they’re doing. Then again, these folks aren’t the kind who can recite TMP from memory, so we’re probably safe. From that at least.

Exactly and Decker never said that either. It would be different if that ship we saw in TMP (can’t remember the name) didn’t exist at all but it’s always been there as well and seen it in models and pictures. So it’s still part of canon.

And I have no issues with your head canon lol. It all makes sense to me.

The ‘I don’t give a s**t’ part me feels the need to mouth off, if for nother reason there are fans out there that peddle the fantasy that Trek writing is scientifically accurate. They need to be reminded it isn’t…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8loq0T4UhQ

But did anyone ever thought Chapel was a hardened war vet in TOS? I don’t mind it, but I don’t buy it either.

Agreed. I think Enterprise fleshed it out really well in season four too.

Perhaps Future Romulan Guy had other reasons of not wanting to go back in time himself other than capability? LIke, if he knows he is altering the time lines it makes sense to stay out of it’s way?

Discovery is pure of heart because it’s made by people who either never liked, saw, or got Star Trek, but Strange New is uglier because it’s barfed forth by some big baby saying, “I loved Star Trek as a kid but I’ve made a better version of it.” I think it’s fair for Akiva’s age cohort to comment on the brown finger paint art he’s making week after week.

I see your point. It’s bad reasoning to assume something absolutely didn’t exist because you didn’t see it before in canon. It’s better to say it shouldn’t exist if it was explicityly stated by Decker these were the ONLY ships to be named Enterprise, which I do not think he did.

And I suppose the logic lines up perfectly. The first space shuttle was Enterprise and the second was Columbia. Ditto with Starfleet.

Still tho, the paradox stuff Seven speaks of in VOY lines up soo well. Cochrane did know the name of Picard’s ship. Troi told him in Montana. And Cochrane, being the drinker he was, gave drunken speeches at univerities speaking of the real events of first contact according to Archer in the ENT Borg ep. I can totally see him insisting that the first WARP 5 be named Enterprise and just using the excuse of the first space shuttle and that maybe it wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

Of course this is entirely just conjecure on my part. My head canon game runs deep LOL

What failed series?

Yeah I can too, especially once we got spore drives and holograms in Discovery lol. SNW wasn’t ever going to be a complete match to TOS for obvious reasons but it is trying a little harder in that department at least.

But I think ENT, DIS and SNW all fit well enough together even if they all have some wild discrepancies here and there.

I think the concept goes back as far as TOS when Spock and McCoy were thrown back in time on some planet to a time before Vulcans discovered Logic and Spock had started reverting to his true emotional self that could kill McCoy in an instant it he set him off in the slightest way. But I don’t think it was truly fleshed out in canon till ENT season 4 when Archer had Surak’s Katra.

I don’t see much connection at all to that failed series. It seems to me like they are largely ignoring it, which is as it should be

And because it’s a fictional television show, there’s no reason why you can’t change it so that at least it remains science fiction in our current reality. That’s what I prefer to suspend my disbelief when I watch the show. I don’t want to say, “what the f*** I don’t remember Khan from the 1990’s?”

Similar to “trust but verify,” I want “science fictional, but verify.”

Sure they should, and they need to If it no longer fits the timeline and our history today and is no longer legitimate science fiction in terms of something that could at least theoretically happen in our future.

I can argue the opposite is just as lazy. It’s a preference issue. I prefer the periodic corrections myself, because it helps me suspend disbelief in what I’m watching – that what I’m seeing might (in general terms) happen someday actually, and the present and the past is consistent with today’s history and events

Don’t get me started on Enterprise. So much more canon stuff to be worried about with that crapfest than the Kurtzman era shows. And that failed show messed with the Vulcans much more than SNW is doing

I know, it’s still silly. People were also saying Uhura wouldn’t know who the Gorn was because she wasn’t on the bridge in their first encounter which made zero sense to me. And then five episodes later she’s facing them down directly lol. Uhura and Chapel also wasn’t suppose to know who T’Pring was in Amok Time. No one was suppose to know Spock was even in a relationship with anyone and people excused her first appearance in SNW since only Pike knew her, only for all that to fly out out of the airlock once she started showing up on Enterprise multiple times…and in this episode her freaking parents are now showing up on the ship lol. And this is happening years before TOS.

And they already turned the T-Pring thing into a love triangle with Spock and Chapel. That’s literally what this episode is about btw.

This is my only point. People keep saying this stuff while ignoring the fact they are going to keep appearing over and over again for probably the next 5 seasons or however the show lasts and will their interactions with the other characters will only grow like we are seeing with T’Pring now. Amanda will probably be showing up a few times from this point on just like the Gorn and T’Pring is now. The mental gymnastics gets tiring trying to avoid canon contradictions which are clearly there and only grows the more these characters appear.

The point is she is showing up on the ship years before, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone later who Spock’s parents are later when they are so important to Federation politics.

And Chapel wasn’t suppose to even know who T’Pring was before TOS and here we are anyway lol.

My only point is these things gets more and more silly. Everyone should just know Spock’s parents including Kirk and McCoy if his mother is showing up on the Enterprise years before even if they never officially met. I’m going to guess everyone in this episode will just know who Sarek is even if he doesn’t show up either because how could they not?

Definitely.

As for the discrepancy with technology, I’ve seen some suggest that the downgrade in TOS compared to DIS and SNW is due to the events from the second season of DIS with Control.

Essentially, Kirk’s Enterprise is downgraded in response to technology getting out of hand.

I can live with that. We just need to see it on screen.

I think the last part is mostly trying to get younger people onboard who has never seen Star Trek. Lower Decks definitely feels like that lol. Even though these shows take place centuries into the future, they want it to still feel contemporary enough to ease into it easier. I’m not saying I agree with this but I understand it. At least with SNW, they don’t go too far with it like DIS at least.

That’s why when people kept saying you can’t take Star Trek too far into the future (ie, anything post-Nemesis) it wouldn’t work because humans would come off too ‘unrelatable’ which was always a big eye roll to me. And that was because A. most aliens on this show already act as human and relatable to humans themselves and B. Its a TV show, not real life. They can have a ship in the 24th century or the 34th century they are going to act as contemporary and relatable as everyone does in the 21st century today if that’s what the producers wants. And we have seen that in Discovery in the 32nd century. Even Zora, the ship’s computer, acts human lol.

I understand maybe in the real future this could be the case centuries from now, but no one knows. Some fans treat these shows as if they are science fact and not science fiction. Star Trek is not a documentary of the future, it’s fictional entertainment. So they can make up whatever they want. They can say humans act or talk however they like regardless the century.

But I don’t disagree they can at least sound a bit more professional and mature since that is the standard even in the primitive 21st century as well.

Chapel is the only one from SNW to have scenes with Spock’s parents in Journey to Babel. Only Kirk and McCoy act surprised in the episode.

I think this is another case of playing loose with canon. Kirk and McCoy aren’t on the Enterprise for this episode of SNW.

In Journey to Babel, Uhura doesn’t have any scenes with Amanda and while Chapel does, she simply acts indifferent about Amanda. No surprise or familiarity is expressed by her.

It is funny that when you look at ENT, DIS, SNW and TOS, it’s TOS that feels like the odd man out between these four shows only in terms of the level of technology and how advanced it looks. Of course that’s being so much older than these but still.

As for ENT, I’m actually impressed with how well they have kept to its canon. It’s always easier when its a sequel to a show like DIS and SNW essentially are; but I can’t think of a single canon contradiction any of those shows made to that show. But I did think they were going to just ignore everything about the TCW and basically pretended like it never happened since a lot of fans at the time didn’t love the idea. Instead they have adopted it and has made it a factor even to the point suggesting SNW is now living in another timeline due to it. And I have no issues with that if that’s the case.

I don’t know if I agree the NX-01 was never suppose to exist. Nothing says there wasn’t a ship just because it wasn’t included in some photos in TMP. That’s like suggesting Burnham never existed because we never saw or heard about her mentioned before Discovery. Certainly all of these things are retcons but that’s how it works, especially in prequels. We have to believe they were always there we just heard about them later.

But yeah I can agree it’s all a new timeline. SNW made that clear in episode 3 this season.

were any of the TOS crewmembers that are in SNW surprised about Amanda?

Yeah I always assumed that was the case. Isn’t that the whole deal with Surak who came up with the idea to learn to suppress their emotions because of how dangerous and violent they were around each other?

They done it in Trek before though with B’Elanna in the episode Faces. And didn’t they also completely wipe out Tyler’s Klingon DNA in Discovery as well? They must have since even medical scans didn’t pick it up.

So I think we already far beyond that now. It’s Star Trek, it’s not suppose to always make sense. ;)

Only if you have some kind of obsessive problem.

But it is funny Amanda will be showing up even though everyone was shocked to see Spock’s parents in A Journey to Babel as if they knew nothing about them lol. More contradictions with canon but not a big deal either, more funny than anything.

Yeah very disappointed L’Rell hasn’t appeared anywhere yet. The first episode this season was the perfect opportunity and not even a reference.

That’s a good point. But I’m willing to see what they do with it, but it sounds fun at least.

Yes but how would that explain the Romulans? They are Vulcans, just choose to be more emotional (but still more strained compared to humans).

I think we can admit, this stuff was all over the place in TOS. They literally had Spock smiling in the first few episodes.

Yes. Great episode, Tiger2.

That’s not how DNA works, guys….

Indeed.

That’s true although it’s funny in Journey to Babel, everyone acted completely surprised when Spock’s parents showed up as if they knew nothing about them. But here is Amanda showing up on the Enterprise years prior. So clearly they knew something about them which was always far fetched they wouldn’t since Spock’s father is the Vulcan ambassador to Earth.

Yep, ‘Faces’, that’s the episode I thought about immediately as well.

If “The Enemy Within” had made it about DNA, I’d be in full agreement with you. That episode is different, though–that’s about his personality, not his DNA, being split in half.